Teacher Unions Reward Mediocrity, Fail the Students
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sonnylax
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 Posted: 02/22/06 - 10:53 Post subject: Teacher Unions Reward Mediocrity, Fail the Students
| Quote: | February 22, 2006
Teacher Unions Reward Mediocrity, Fail the Students
By John Stossel
"The teachers united will never be defeated!" chanted thousands of public-school teachers at a union rally. They may be right -- unfortunately. Teachers unions in this country are very influential because they can assemble a crowd. Randi Weingarten, head of New York's teachers union, put out the word, and thousands of teachers filled Madison Square Garden to demand a new contract and more money. That clout brings timid politicians into line.
The unions can pay for expensive rallies at "the world's most famous arena" because every teacher in a unionized district like New York must give up some of his salary to the union. Even teachers who don't like the union, teachers who believe in school choice, and teachers who could make more on the open market must fork over their money to support the unions that fight against school choice and merit pay.
The unions use their clout to fight against the interests of the best teachers. Union leaders make sure the teachers who work hardest don't get raises or bonuses. Everyone with the same seniority and credentials must be paid the same. That guarantees that no teacher will take home a dime for making extra sure that students learn. Joel Klein, who as New York's schools chancellor runs the country's largest public-school system, put it this way: "We tolerate mediocrity, and people get paid the same whether they're outstanding or whether they're average or, indeed, whether they're way below average."
Klein said that out of 80,000 teachers, only two have been fired for incompetence in the past two years. That's because it takes years for a principal to fire an incompetent teacher. I can't explain the rules here, but you may be able to read a flow chart about them in my next book -- "may be" because the flow chart may be too big to fit in a book. The rules are so complex that they ought to begin: First, take a week off from running your school to study these rules. Many of the rules come from the union contract, which has 200 pages plus a mess of addenda. Even Klein, who used to practice antitrust law for the federal government, called the contract a "regulatory nightmare."
But the unions fight to protect the nightmare. Weingarten has a remarkable excuse: "Our union has actually stepped up to the plate and said we'll police our own profession."
I'd like to police my own job, too. And I'll bet some students would just love to police their own homework!
Of course, unions do more than just protect incompetents. Weingarten, on behalf of New York's teachers union, fought for a uniform day of six hours, 40 minutes. "Which is what normally happens in the private sector," she told me.
Funny. I work in the private sector every day, and I haven't seen that. Have you?
The teachers no longer have that either, though. Last year, they made a big concession. Now they have a uniform day of six hours, 50 minutes. That's nearly a whole additional hour every week!
Some teachers care about the students, so they want to do more than the contract requires. But astoundingly, some of them told me they are actually afraid to stay at school when the union says it's time to go home. They worry they'll "get in trouble with the union." It's as if the teachers, united, never to be defeated, made a decision: Instead of letting the administrators crack down on bad teachers, the union will protect the bad teachers by cracking down on the good ones.
Maybe that's what Weingarten calls policing their own profession.
I confronted Weingarten. "Unionized monopolies like yours fail. In this case, it is the children who -- who you are failing."
"We are not a unionized monopoly," she retorted. "And ultimately those folks who want to say this all the time, they don't really care about kids."
Really, Ms. Weingarten? You fight to protect a system that rewards mediocrity, and then you claim your critics don't care about kids?
Give Me a Break.
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 02/23/06 - 11:13 Post subject:
Sonny
I actually watched that episode, it was about a month ago. I was horrified by not just the imcompetent teachers that couldn't get fired but actually sex offenders. The steps the administration had to go through were 10 pages.......so because of the impossibility to fire a sex offender the district puts the teacher in what they call a "rubber room". Stossel went to the actual building to show it exists. The teacher shows up for work (this building) and sits there for the 7 hours a day doing nothing. It's the best the administration can do to make sure that the teacher isn't by students.
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phillycat
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Posted: 02/23/06 - 11:32 Post subject:
I think that teacher unions are just part of the problem. NCLB...what a joke. Teach to the test. Who cares what students learn. In addition, our society doesn't value teachers. Also, in my personal experience the education programs in higher education are so ridiculously easy it's sad. Where does it all end?
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runaroundsue
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Posted: 02/23/06 - 12:32 Post subject:
| phillycat wrote: | | I think that teacher unions are just part of the problem. NCLB...what a joke. Teach to the test. Who cares what students learn. In addition, our society doesn't value teachers. Also, in my personal experience the education programs in higher education are so ridiculously easy it's sad. Where does it all end? |
so do you think the caliber of professors is lacking or the "bulk" of the student body attending undergrad and/or grads??
I learned more from my business classes taken at night which were taught by actual business men/women. They were "tougher" graders also!! If I just read the book in my professors classes, I was good.
I don't know about the "value" comment. We have school choice in place. So if certain schools are filling up, isn't that an indication that it's doing something right? I know at my son's elementary school, parents are starting to pick teachers. I didn't and of course, my son got the teacher that parents avoided last year. I felt like I was teaching my son through "homework".
Seems to me that parents ARE trying to police the teachers, you'd think that a teacher that all parents are requesting would be rewarded somehow. All parents can do is nominate them for some "golden apple" award. Seems like parents ARE showing appreciation. My son's teacher is only in her third year, parents are already talking to the principal to get the child in her class. Isn't this clearly an indication that she's doing something right? In fact, it's almost the opposite. I know that she is actually resented by the other "mediocre" teachers. So, it appears to me that there isn't an incentive to actually be a good teacher. If you'd suggest something that is in the parents hands to "fix it". I'd love to know.
Seems to me the only option for parents is to "opt out" of the system and now with the advent of online education and charter school, even the nonrich people have more options. The union better step it up quick.
In just about any profession, the "best" are rewarded. I can't even think of another profession that someone that was awful or actually have clientele.
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phillycat
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Posted: 02/23/06 - 14:31 Post subject:
| runaroundsue wrote: |
so do you think the caliber of professors is lacking or the "bulk" of the student body attending undergrad and/or grads??
I learned more from my business classes taken at night which were taught by actual business men/women. They were "tougher" graders also!! If I just read the book in my professors classes, I was good.
I don't know about the "value" comment. We have school choice in place. So if certain schools are filling up, isn't that an indication that it's doing something right? I know at my son's elementary school, parents are starting to pick teachers. I didn't and of course, my son got the teacher that parents avoided last year. I felt like I was teaching my son through "homework".
Seems to me that parents ARE trying to police the teachers, you'd think that a teacher that all parents are requesting would be rewarded somehow. All parents can do is nominate them for some "golden apple" award. Seems like parents ARE showing appreciation. My son's teacher is only in her third year, parents are already talking to the principal to get the child in her class. Isn't this clearly an indication that she's doing something right? In fact, it's almost the opposite. I know that she is actually resented by the other "mediocre" teachers. So, it appears to me that there isn't an incentive to actually be a good teacher. If you'd suggest something that is in the parents hands to "fix it". I'd love to know.
Seems to me the only option for parents is to "opt out" of the system and now with the advent of online education and charter school, even the nonrich people have more options. The union better step it up quick.
In just about any profession, the "best" are rewarded. I can't even think of another profession that someone that was awful or actually have clientele. |
I think it is both. Professors and students.
In regards to my value comment I guess that I just meant that we pay them relatively low wages to do a very tough job.
I don't know the answer. I think the "opt out" idea is probably going to increase in popularity though as the years go by if the system continues in what I see as a downward spiral.
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j1miller
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Posted: 02/23/06 - 14:57 Post subject:
| phillycat wrote: | | runaroundsue wrote: |
so do you think the caliber of professors is lacking or the "bulk" of the student body attending undergrad and/or grads??
I learned more from my business classes taken at night which were taught by actual business men/women. They were "tougher" graders also!! If I just read the book in my professors classes, I was good.
I don't know about the "value" comment. We have school choice in place. So if certain schools are filling up, isn't that an indication that it's doing something right? I know at my son's elementary school, parents are starting to pick teachers. I didn't and of course, my son got the teacher that parents avoided last year. I felt like I was teaching my son through "homework".
Seems to me that parents ARE trying to police the teachers, you'd think that a teacher that all parents are requesting would be rewarded somehow. All parents can do is nominate them for some "golden apple" award. Seems like parents ARE showing appreciation. My son's teacher is only in her third year, parents are already talking to the principal to get the child in her class. Isn't this clearly an indication that she's doing something right? In fact, it's almost the opposite. I know that she is actually resented by the other "mediocre" teachers. So, it appears to me that there isn't an incentive to actually be a good teacher. If you'd suggest something that is in the parents hands to "fix it". I'd love to know.
Seems to me the only option for parents is to "opt out" of the system and now with the advent of online education and charter school, even the nonrich people have more options. The union better step it up quick.
In just about any profession, the "best" are rewarded. I can't even think of another profession that someone that was awful or actually have clientele. |
I think it is both. Professors and students.
In regards to my value comment I guess that I just meant that we pay them relatively low wages to do a very tough job.
I don't know the answer. I think the "opt out" idea is probably going to increase in popularity though as the years go by if the system continues in what I see as a downward spiral. |
My ex is a teacher. He made $35K in his third year. he only worked 9 months out of the year. Annualize that and it's $46K. That's more than I make.
I agree they could be paid more, but I don't buy the poor-mouth stuff that we hear so much of. They make decent money and get pretty good benefits.
I'm not suggesting that I know how to fix the system. I just don't buy the low income argument.
I'd tell you my ideas about public education, but there are not enough fire extinguishers in the world to control the flames that would happen if I did that.
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phillycat
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Posted: 02/23/06 - 15:16 Post subject:
| j1miller wrote: | [
In regards to my value comment I guess that I just meant that we pay them relatively low wages to do a very tough job.
My ex is a teacher. He made $35K in his third year. he only worked 9 months out of the year. Annualize that and it's $46K. That's more than I make.
I agree they could be paid more, but I don't buy the poor-mouth stuff that we hear so much of. They make decent money and get pretty good benefits.
I'm not suggesting that I know how to fix the system. I just don't buy the low income argument.
I'd tell you my ideas about public education, but there are not enough fire extinguishers in the world to control the flames that would happen if I did that. |
I guess it is just a matter of perspective. I personally think that $46k is a low wage for what many of our teachers are expected to do. That said, I am sure that there are many who don't deserve that. My point is that our society pays actors and athletes tons of $$$ to entertain us, but those reponsible for a large part of our children's lives...are paid disproportionately low.
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j1miller
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Posted: 02/23/06 - 15:21 Post subject:
| phillycat wrote: | | j1miller wrote: | [
In regards to my value comment I guess that I just meant that we pay them relatively low wages to do a very tough job.
My ex is a teacher. He made $35K in his third year. he only worked 9 months out of the year. Annualize that and it's $46K. That's more than I make.
I agree they could be paid more, but I don't buy the poor-mouth stuff that we hear so much of. They make decent money and get pretty good benefits.
I'm not suggesting that I know how to fix the system. I just don't buy the low income argument.
I'd tell you my ideas about public education, but there are not enough fire extinguishers in the world to control the flames that would happen if I did that. |
I guess it is just a matter of perspective. I personally think that $46k is a low wage for what many of our teachers are expected to do. That said, I am sure that there are many who don't deserve that. My point is that our society pays actors and athletes tons of $$$ to entertain us, but those reponsible for a large part of our children's lives...are paid disproportionately low. |
We pay actors and actresses/ sports figures more because the laws of supply and demand allow for it. That is really the only reason.
You are right about it being all perspective, though.
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phillycat
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Posted: 02/23/06 - 15:30 Post subject:
| j1miller wrote: | | phillycat wrote: | | j1miller wrote: | [
In regards to my value comment I guess that I just meant that we pay them relatively low wages to do a very tough job.
My ex is a teacher. He made $35K in his third year. he only worked 9 months out of the year. Annualize that and it's $46K. That's more than I make.
I agree they could be paid more, but I don't buy the poor-mouth stuff that we hear so much of. They make decent money and get pretty good benefits.
I'm not suggesting that I know how to fix the system. I just don't buy the low income argument.
I'd tell you my ideas about public education, but there are not enough fire extinguishers in the world to control the flames that would happen if I did that. |
I guess it is just a matter of perspective. I personally think that $46k is a low wage for what many of our teachers are expected to do. That said, I am sure that there are many who don't deserve that. My point is that our society pays actors and athletes tons of $$$ to entertain us, but those reponsible for a large part of our children's lives...are paid disproportionately low. |
We pay actors and actresses/ sports figures more because the laws of supply and demand allow for it. That is really the only reason.
You are right about it being all perspective, though. |
Regardless of the reason, it is f'd up that we pay these people more than those who we expect to educate our children. Granted, the solution isn't just to go and pay them more. That isn't what I am saying. I think that this is just a small piece of the puzzle.
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j1miller
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Posted: 02/23/06 - 15:49 Post subject:
| phillycat wrote: | | j1miller wrote: | | phillycat wrote: | | j1miller wrote: | [
In regards to my value comment I guess that I just meant that we pay them relatively low wages to do a very tough job.
My ex is a teacher. He made $35K in his third year. he only worked 9 months out of the year. Annualize that and it's $46K. That's more than I make.
I agree they could be paid more, but I don't buy the poor-mouth stuff that we hear so much of. They make decent money and get pretty good benefits.
I'm not suggesting that I know how to fix the system. I just don't buy the low income argument.
I'd tell you my ideas about public education, but there are not enough fire extinguishers in the world to control the flames that would happen if I did that. |
I guess it is just a matter of perspective. I personally think that $46k is a low wage for what many of our teachers are expected to do. That said, I am sure that there are many who don't deserve that. My point is that our society pays actors and athletes tons of $$$ to entertain us, but those reponsible for a large part of our children's lives...are paid disproportionately low. |
We pay actors and actresses/ sports figures more because the laws of supply and demand allow for it. That is really the only reason.
You are right about it being all perspective, though. |
Regardless of the reason, it is f'd up that we pay these people more than those who we expect to educate our children. Granted, the solution isn't just to go and pay them more. That isn't what I am saying. I think that this is just a small piece of the puzzle. |
I agree with you that it is a small piece of the puzzle.
I can't believe we agree on something. I'm in absolute shock.
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phillycat
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Posted: 02/23/06 - 15:57 Post subject:
| j1miller wrote: | | phillycat wrote: | | j1miller wrote: | | phillycat wrote: | | j1miller wrote: | [
In regards to my value comment I guess that I just meant that we pay them relatively low wages to do a very tough job.
My ex is a teacher. He made $35K in his third year. he only worked 9 months out of the year. Annualize that and it's $46K. That's more than I make.
I agree they could be paid more, but I don't buy the poor-mouth stuff that we hear so much of. They make decent money and get pretty good benefits.
I'm not suggesting that I know how to fix the system. I just don't buy the low income argument.
I'd tell you my ideas about public education, but there are not enough fire extinguishers in the world to control the flames that would happen if I did that. |
I guess it is just a matter of perspective. I personally think that $46k is a low wage for what many of our teachers are expected to do. That said, I am sure that there are many who don't deserve that. My point is that our society pays actors and athletes tons of $$$ to entertain us, but those reponsible for a large part of our children's lives...are paid disproportionately low. |
We pay actors and actresses/ sports figures more because the laws of supply and demand allow for it. That is really the only reason.
You are right about it being all perspective, though. |
Regardless of the reason, it is f'd up that we pay these people more than those who we expect to educate our children. Granted, the solution isn't just to go and pay them more. That isn't what I am saying. I think that this is just a small piece of the puzzle. |
I agree with you that it is a small piece of the puzzle.
I can't believe we agree on something. I'm in absolute shock. |
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robp
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Posted: 02/23/06 - 16:19 Post subject:
If you two have a group hug, can I be in the middle?
Okay, I'm off-topic, I apologize.
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phillycat
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Posted: 02/23/06 - 16:23 Post subject:
| robp wrote: | If you two have a group hug, can I be in the middle?
Okay, I'm off-topic, I apologize. |
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airehead
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Posted: 02/23/06 - 16:26 Post subject:
More money is being spent on education than ever--so that alone isn't the answer.
Teaching methods have shifted--and our kids are not learning the basics like they were. That's part of the problem.
And the curriculum just isn't as strong as it used to be. That's another part of the problem.
A lot of authority has been taken away from the teachers regarding disclipine and other classroom matters.
I agree that it is a messed up nation that reveres its sports/movie stars more than they revere their educators.
I've said it before--it is messed up to me that the highest paid educators at some college campuses are the athletic directors/coaches. They bring in the money, so they get commensurate pay. 
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j1miller
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Posted: 02/23/06 - 16:27 Post subject:
I also think that we push the kids too hard, too young. That may be a small part in it as well.
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